Eps. 23 | Feeding with Confidence: Understanding Lactation and Support

Every feeding journey is unique, and every parent deserves support.
In this conversation, Regina Martin, Certified Lactation Counselor, shares practical tips, expert insights, and encouragement for expecting and new parents navigating breastfeeding and infant feeding. From common challenges to building confidence, this episode offers compassionate guidance to help families feel informed and supported.

In this episode, you'll learn:
• What a Certified Lactation Counselor does
• Common breastfeeding challenges and how to overcome them
• The importance of early lactation support
• Tips for building confidence in your feeding journey
• Resources available to new and expecting parents

Regina Martin
Ph: 701-440-8381
Email: regina@dickinsonbirthphotographer.com

To learn more about Women Empowering Women or become a member, visit wewnetwork.org or email info@wewnetwork.org.

The EmpowerND Podcast is hosted by Women Empowering Women, a membership based non-profit organization dedicated to connecting, supporting, and educating women. Through community, events, and resources, Women Empowering Women helps women grow, build confidence, and explore their potential, supporting them every step of the way as they become the best version of themselves. To learn more about Women Empowering Women’s projects or how to become a member, visit wewnetwork.org.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Empower Indie Podcast. This podcast creates space for honest conversations about health, well-being, and community resources to help people in southwestern North Dakota live healthy, fitful lives. The Empower Indie Podcast is produced by Women Empowering Women, a nonprofit organization dedicated to connecting, supporting, and educating women to help them become the best versions of themselves. To become a member or learn more, visit wewnetwork.org. Today we're joined by lactation consultant Regina Martin to talk about what breastfeeding really looks like in those early days after birth. We get into what tends to catch new moms off guard, how to tell the difference between normal newborn behavior and something that might need support. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Hi, I'm Regina Martin. I am a birthday, lactation counselor, childbirth educator, birth photographer. I do a lot of different things, wear a lot of different hats. Um I've lived in North Dakota for 17 years almost. I have four kids and a husband and a dog and chickens, and we just live life. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Okay. Well, we'll just start into the content. So what is a lactation consultant?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

So a lactation consultant, I mean, boil it down, it is a professional trained in supporting people through breastfeeding. Um, and that can be pumping directly at the breast, combination feeding, whatever it looks like to feed your baby. Lactation counselor has specialty in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Okay. So for moms who are about to start their breastfeeding journey, what do you wish they knew before a baby even arrives?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

I wish they knew what normal, physiologically normal breastfeeding looks like, newborn behavior looks like, that it does not look like the baby just wakes up every two to three hours and is ready to eat. And that two to three feed your baby every two to three hours is maybe more like every half an hour and then every four hours, or you know, right. That bottle feeding culture does not translate over to breastfeeding. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

I think that's a good tip. Uh what does successful breastfeeding actually look like in real life, not just on social media?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

That is extremely dependent on the family and on the mom. What are her definitions of success? Is that being able to breastfeed when you're with your baby and formula feeding when you're away from your baby? You know, whatever that looks like for you. Are you doing it because of the bond? Are you doing it because it's really important to you to exclusively breastfeed your baby? You define your own success.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

I think that's a good thing to to really make moms not have that pressure. Um, so for me, I really wanted, I had twins and they were after there was my second birth, and I really wanted to exclusively breastfeed them, but it was way too overstimulating. And so I pumped and my family fed them and we would all go back to bed at the same time. Nice. And that was success for us.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

You know, and it wasn't the baby to the breast, and it was totally different than what other people do, but it worked really well.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Right. I mean, if I had to sum it up in one word, to me, success success is sustainability. Right. Whatever looks sustainable for you, for your family, for your mental health, for physical health, it all needs to come together. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

So the early days of breastfeeding, what those first few days, when those first few days hit and emotions are high, what challenges tend to catch moms most off guard?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I think again, back to how often newborns need to feed, need to be at the breast. Yeah. Um, especially with your first kid, and you kind of are used to just going and having your whole own life and like not being touched constantly.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah. Um, and then you have this baby that finishes eating and 20 minutes later they're ready to nurse again, and you're like, no, like yeah, and I think a lot of moms think that they are doing something wrong or the baby's not getting milk because the baby wants to eat again so soon. And it's just that that's that's how they're learning what hunger is and what being full is and and what their cues are.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yes, and their tummies are so tiny and s milk digests so quickly, and yeah, it's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yeah. So that kind of leads into our next thing. Low milk supply is something many moms worry about. Uh, so what are the actual signs of low supply versus normal new newborn behavior?

SPEAKER_01 4:49

We can kind of go down a rabbit trail with this because is it actually low milk supply or is it poor milk transfer? Um, there's different signs between actually having low milk supply or your baby not getting enough milk. Um true low milk supply is actually a fairly low percentage of moms. Um, but baby not getting enough milk, that is something that we see far more commonly far more commonly. Um, so things like if they're not, you know, after day six, if they're not, you know, having six dirty diapers every single day.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

So one of the things that I do as a provider is I will have moms, I really encourage them that if they're struggling in those first few days or weeks of breastfeeding, that we can do a pre and postfeed in the clinic, um, wait, and then they know exactly what they transferred. And we know if we actually have a problem. You know, if the transfer is actually a problem, I will always, always encourage them to come in and and to do that so that they get some reassurance. Though that data really helps them to know, okay, they did eat. They did get some milk.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Right, because it's not as easy. There's not like there's not a gauge on the side of your breast that like you can see, like, okay, they drank this much milk.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

So you weigh them before they feed, and you weigh them after, and they get that data to see that they transferred the milk. Right. The baby now has more milk, you know, has more weight because they ate, and then they go home more reassured that it is working. And maybe their baby just really enjoys to feed every 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

So cluster feeding can make moms feel like they're failing. Can you explain what is really happening during that stage?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Um, there's a variety of things that can be going on that can be prompting cluster feeding. Um, it's very, very common for moms to see cluster feeding behavior in the evening. Um, and this is because typically um moms' prolactin levels are at their lowest in the evening. So you just don't have quite the amount of milk. So baby is just not quite getting the amount of milk that they're looking for. Um I'm sure that there's also some studies and like whatever out there about like just babies have their own biological, physiological, whatever that they need to be with mom in the evening. I don't know anything about that side of the science, but um so that's very common. Like they're just looking. Another reason is sometimes they're going through a growth spurt. And so they do need, you know, they really just they're bulking up on their calories. Um so just because your baby's cluster feeding doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. Um, your baby's really smart. Um, and more often than not, you put baby to breast. When in doubt, put baby to breast, and it's gonna work out.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, and I think it's really important to educate moms too on how their body responds uh physically. And so that nerve stimulation of the nipple really explains to their body that they need to produce more milk so that the baby can have enough milk the next time. So every time they cluster feed, it's the baby telling the breast, hey, make more milk. I need more milk. And so every nerve stimulation actually increases milk production. And then as they're going through a growth spurt, that's why the cluster feeds happen is so that they can continue to produce more.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yes. Thank you for yeah, filling in that background.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Uh, so at what point should breastfeeding discomfort or pain become a concern instead of something moms just push through?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Some nipple tenderness in the first two to three weeks we would consider normal. Um, toe curling pain, cracks, bruises, scabs on the nipples, like that level of nipple trauma, even if it's like, oh, it's just a little blister. No, it's not normal. It's not normal. It's common, but that does not mean it's normal. That means there's something going on with the latch. And that needs to that warrants a visit to a lactation professional or care provider of some variety that can help you work on that latch. It's not going to get better just pushing through and oh yeah. It's painful. Yes, it's it hurts so bad.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

What are the big biggest latch mistakes you see that can lead to pain, frustration, or poor milk transfer?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Um maternal positioning. Um, whatever position mom is in, and often we just imitate what we see on TV or you know, just whatever. Um and so maybe not paying attention to some of those good positioning, you know, having the baby's ear, shoulder, and hip lined up. Um or realizing that like, mom, you can recline. You don't need to like sit up straight in this stiff chair, like bent over your baby, holding like actually your baby feeds better if you're reclined. Um, so mom's comfort in positioning is also so important. And um, so a lot of times there's just tweaks that with positioning that can help a lot. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah, I always give moms the uh kind of an analogy. I saw it in a breastfeeding course at this one time, and it was the funniest thing I've ever seen. And so this lady, she takes this really messy hamburger and she puts it in front of her, and she's like trying to take a bite, and she's like, Okay, how would you take a bite of a big hamburger? You would go up and over, you know. So, how would your baby feed like this? Right. Trying to get that big hamburger in their mouth. And so, like that visualization of seeing how the jaw really does have to like go up and over the nipple to be able to transfer milk, right, is huge for moms because they're like when they're looking at their baby, they don't realize like, oh, their jaw has to be aligned with the nipple to be able to transfer this milk, or they're trying to eat a hamburger sideways.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Right. Or even like think about us like think about trying to drink sideways.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

You can't drink sideways adults, like that's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

It's weird in it, no.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

So to be able to swallow and get the milk, you know, and to be able to transfer, like it really does have to be aligned. And the positioning helps. And so a lot of moms are trying to like, they're just very awkwardly positioned and and they don't realize that it's okay for them to be comfortable while they do it.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah, all of the pillows, yeah. With safety and, you know, whatever. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

So are there foods, hydration habits, or routines that help milk production?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

No. There's a lot of things on face like mom Facebook groups that people claim help. Um, being hydrated is never a bad thing. Drinking your blue Power Aid is not gonna hurt anything. It's probably not gonna make you make more milk. Um, the best thing, the best routine to being able to make more milk is feeding your baby frequently, emptying the breast frequently.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Yeah, and that's that nerve stimulation. Like it's gonna produce it's telling the brain and the body and the hormones that they need to produce more milk.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

An empty breast or a breast that's kept empty makes more milk. Right. Like, yeah, hands down.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

What are the early signs of clogged ducts or mastitis that moms should pay attention to before it becomes serious? And how can you help prevent these issues?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

So again, the root problem of a lot of those things are poor latch, um, even poor oral function on baby's part. Um, early signs would be areas of soreness in the breast, red redness, swelling. Um, usually often you can feel a lump where a where a plug duct is um with mastitis, you would have that plus fever and you feel like you're hit by a truck. Um so any of those symptoms you would want to get checked out or just you know stay on top of.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Um and it it's important for them to understand that they need to keep emptying the breast too. Yes. Um because getting engorged on top of that is not definitely not something you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yes. Ice packs can come in handy, keeping the area cool is going to help bring down the inflammation. Um it used to be that we were just recommending heat, heat, heat. Right. Now the evidence is kind of like actually cold is better. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

So emotionally, what do you think is the hardest part of breastfeeding for most moms?

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Um I think back to that just constant, constantly being needed and feeling kind of suffocated and and claustrophobic and isolated and lack of sleep. Yes. Yeah, and the lack of sleep, like that right there is is huge, no matter if you're breastfeeding or not.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Right. So what are some ways moms can protect their mental health while breastfeeding?

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Having your support, your support team around you, having good support is huge. Um ideally, if mom can stay on the couch and nurse her baby and somebody else is feeding and hydrating her, and then like giving her a little break to go outside and take a walk, like perfect. Like you do need those windows, you need those breaks. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Uh what uh role does support from partners, family, or friends really play in breastfeeding success? Huge.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

If everybody around you is saying, Oh, give it up, or oh, you're not making enough milk, or oh, the baby this, the baby, you know, you it's gonna be so much harder for you. If there is a nursing mom in your group, keep her in the group. If she has to feed her baby, let her feed her baby. Realize that if you have a breastfeeding family member, you're probably going to see a breast at some point. It's normal. It's it's the way nature works. Um, and if, you know, a lot, a lot of moms feel very isolated when they're breastfeeding, and and that's a big part of it is when they feel like they have to go to the other room to breastfeed.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Or everyone is sitting around the table, you know, having a good time, and she's over in the living room caring for baby, you know, keep her included.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah. When I was uh in nursing school, I was pumping for my twins. I had just had them when I started nursing school. And I remember some really young girls that were in my nursing school class in the bathroom because the only place to pump was in the bathroom in a stall. So I had my cord like running out because this was before the time of like cordless stuff where you can walk around the house while you pump. This was a giant machine that was like super loud, and the cord was running across the bathroom to plug in. And these girls come in and they're like, What is that noise? What's going on in here? And I was just mortified because I was like, Oh my goodness, I wanted to just walk out with an o-shirt and be like, because I have babies to feed, okay? This is what's going on. But that's not that is not what a new mom needs.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

No, not really. It's not very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

No, not at all. Thank goodness pumps have come a long way. They have, yes. So for the mom sitting awake in the middle of the night feeling defeated, what would you want her to hear?

SPEAKER_01 16:33

I would want her to hear that if she's sitting awake in the middle of the night feeling defeated, she's already a good mom. Because bad moms don't sit awake in the middle of the night feeling defeated.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah, it's it's a lot to take on as a new mom. As a new parent, too, you know. I remember my husband being really worried about how to support with breastfeeding and and what he could do to help, and and making sure that, you know, once I decided that pumping was the way we had to go because I was too overstimulated and exhausted, you know, he would change them, feed them while I pumped. I had 15 minutes every few hours that I was alone and I was able to pump, and that was huge for our success, you know. So just making sure that the mom also like expresses what she needs or what would make her feel successful so that they know what to do because they're kind of helpless in the fact that they don't know how to help. You know, so just making sure that the partners or or family members have a role of what actually will help.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

And that's different for each family, you know. But whatever that mom is like, this is the thing that really pushes me over the edge. That's what they should help with.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

So at what point should a mom reach out to a lactation counselor?

SPEAKER_01 17:53

I mean, ideally while she's still pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Establishing that relationship. If breastfeeding is something that's really important to you, something that you are really planning to do, um, establishing that relationship ahead of time. I know I see clients all of the time while they're still pregnant. We do a prenatal visit, we talk about past breastfeeding experiences, we talk about um their medical history, if there's anything that might come up that might be a challenge for breastfeeding. We talk about what normal, what normal newborn behavior looks like. Um, you know, just and do like a lot of breastfeeding education. And then we have a roadmap for when baby gets here. You know who to call. Um, you've already established care, and it's gonna all be so much simpler and easier than if you are in, you know, the fog of newborn life with a three-day old baby and your nipples are bleeding and baby's crying and you're crying and you're just like, I don't know what to do. You know.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

I think having uh having knowledge is really powerful for them and knowing what early hunger cues look like and making sure that they catch their baby when they first start showing those signs instead of when they're frantically hungry. Yes, oh my god, yes, because that really de-escalates the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yes, yes. I preach that a lot. Like, please, just it's gonna be so much easier. You get baby to breast before they even wake up. Yeah. And crying is a late, you know, late hunger sign, and then baby's crying and then mom's crying and everybody's crying. We need to like start, do a whole reset.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

And yeah. Uh, what should moms expect during a lactation consult consultation?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

So after baby's here, um, typically, so I also do a weighted feed. Typically, I do a uh wait at the beginning of their appointment. Um, I watch them nurse, I do a little look-you around their mouth just to kind of assess their oral function. Um, I have the advantage where I work with Milky Ways um out of Bismarck. I work under the supervision of an IBCLC. So she gets all of my notes, she tells me what's going on with this baby's oral function. Um, anyways, and then I observe a feeding and we kind of just talk about what's going on. Typically, um I might send them with like some exercises um to help with like some suck training coordination stuff to help baby's latch get better, that kind of thing. But yeah.

unknown 20:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

So if you could change one thing about how we educate moms on breastfeeding, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 20:33

That they define their own success and they don't just have to push through it, seek help, get support before it gets really bad, before you're get support when you're not on your worst day.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah, and I think that moms really need to know um and feel supported by like providers and and not pressured because being empowered, you know, making them feel like they can do it, but it's okay if they don't. You know, and if they don't, that's okay. And I feel like that gives them a little bit of a push sometimes when it gets really hard to like, well, I don't have to do this rather than I have to do this or I'm a failure. Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Or like even when you are seeking that support and you find tools and resources that you didn't even know exist. Right. You know, you find out like, oh, this is how to use a nipple shield, and this is how it's going to help me, and this is what we're going to do to get off of the nipple shield. And yeah, but like right now, this nipple shield is keeping me from like screaming in pain when my baby latches.

unknown 21:42

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Okay, so today's conversation is a reminder that breastfeeding is something you learn as you go. It's not always intuitive and it's not always easy, especially in those early days. If you're in the middle of it right now, you're not alone. The questions, the frustration, the exhaustion, the uncertainty, all of it is part of the process for a lot of moms, even when it feels like you're all you're the only one going through it. We hope this gave you a little more understanding and a little more peace in whatever stage you're in. Thanks for being here. And until next time, stay informed, stay empowered, and we'll see you on the next Empower Indie podcast.